Michele Lewis:  Obviously winning two WSOP bracelets in the same series is impressive but what I found really impressive was your goal to make three final tables and you did.  I know you feel great about the bracelets but how great is it to accomplish a goal you set.

  

Tom Schneider:  That’s really the amazing part in two ways…one is its always amazing you accomplish goals that you set for yourself.  It’s often amazing we don’t set goals enough in our lives and we don’t have something to shoot for.  I do think that setting that goal helped me get to the final table in the H.O.R.S.E. event.  I had that goal in my mind constantly when there were fifteen players and then twelve players left.  My goal truly was to make the final table. It (goal) wasn’t to win the tournament because I believe if you make the final table you can win the tournament, you can set a different goal.

 

Truly when you set goals, you believe in them and you really want to achieve them it changes the way that you think and behave.  And that’s why when people set goals they achieve them so often. 

 

ML:  I heard “Oops! I Won too Much Money” is a great read and inspirational.  When and why did you decide to write a book?

  

TS:  About two years ago I was playing poker with Phil Hellmuth in California.  He was behaving like his normal self and I just thought…you know if Phil can write books, I have a different perspective on things, a way to behave and all that.  Not that his is wrong, but I have a different one.  I think there are more people like me than there are like him and I just thought people might be interested in reading my perspective. 

 

As I was writing the book, I turned it a little more into a life lesson’s book as seen through poker and business.  Because there’s always been some stuff I’ve wanted to tell my kids, some of it maybe a little too businessy for them but at the same time they’re still good lessons from all of it.  There are also enough strategy books out there so no one would really need to read my strategy book.  I have a unique perspective that not many people in the world have which is playing poker at a high level and being in business at a reasonably high level.  I just thought it might be an interesting perspective.

 

ML: Does the poker side of the book teach and prepare for life in the poker environment?

 

TS:  I have poker stories and business stories in almost every chapter and then I sum it up with what I call a winning wisdom.  It’s intended to be humorous, yet insightful and you walk away thinking…I never thought about it before or I never thought about it that way before.  It’s things around poker and that’s how Karridy (Askenasy) came up with the radio show “Beyond the Table” because that’s what the book is about.

 I have a story about playing a 400/800 limit game when this guy we know comes up and says “hey anyone here want to buy a brand new car? It’s my dream car.”  And a guy asks “why are you selling it?”  He answered “Well, I lost my bankroll over in that game and I want to go get my money back.”

 Then I tell a story of a friend of mine who lost 50% of his net worth in the stock market and he immediately tried to sell other assets so he could go get his money back in the market. 

 The moral of the story is there are good times and bad times to get your money back.  Right after you’ve taken a devastating loss it isn’t the best time to get your money back, especially in poker where obviously they’re good at taking it. 

 

The winning wisdom says:

Vegas doesn’t close.  There will always be another game.  There will always be stocks to pick, real estate to buy, and new opportunities tomorrow.  Take advantage of these opportunities when you do your best thinking.  If you’re lucky, someone else will have sold his dream car and will be easy pickings, like you were yesterday.

 I tell this story much better in the book.  I tell everybody this is a good toilet book.

 

ML:  Have you enjoyed blogging on Pokerati?

TS:  I do.  I don’t do it as much as I should.  I admire people who can play poker and blog because when I play poker I play until it’s time for bed and I don’t have the energy.  But I have some posts I want to do soon.

 

ML:  What made you go from CFO to Pro?  Was it scary?

TS:  It really wasn’t that scary because I had played poker enough time to think I could beat people.  And if I didn’t or couldn’t then I wasn’t going to risk all of my bankroll/net worth to watch it go down.  I was going to take a shot with a reasonable chunk of money and see if I could do it.  I decided if I could that’s great; if I couldn’t then I’ll just go get a regular job. 

 

I was dating Julie (now his wife) at the time and she had been a dealer for 17 years.  She encouraged me to quit my job and told me she thought I was one of the best players she had ever seen.  But at first she thought I was a big idiot… in poker terms. 

 

ML:  I guess after winning two bracelets you proved her first thoughts wrong.

TS:  [laughing] Well, when she first met me she thought I played strange, was kind of a goose.  Partially it was because I beat her in a couple of hands that I probably shouldn’t have been playing.  In her words, we would have started dating two or three years earlier had I not tortured her a couple of times in poker games. 

 

ML:   It’s nice to have a supportive spouse when you play poker. 

TS:  It really is.  First of all, if I didn’t have a supportive spouse in poker I wouldn’t have a spouse.  That’s how important I think it is.  It’s even more important in poker because it’s something a lot of people can’t understand and can’t appreciate.  But it’s easier to be supportive when you have someone who goes about it in more of a business like non-gamble-holic sort of way.  It would be hard to support somebody who takes 100% of their bankroll, goes and gets a little hot when somebody tortures them and then plays badly, loses their whole bankroll and they have to pay rent.  It’s hard to be supportive of people like that.

 

ML:  Did you start with just cash games?

TS:  Yes, I was playing mostly cash games.  I would go to the World Series and play between 4 – 7 events but I started playing a few more tournaments because I saw how people were getting so much value out of tournaments.  I like cash games better because of the flexible schedule and you don’t spend two days without results.  But this year I played 25 events.

 

ML:  Has winning the two bracelets changed anything for you?

TS:  It really hasn’t.  My friends and family are more excited than I am.  You know I could go ten years and not win another bracelet.  It was my year, everybody has their year and that’s when you take advantage of playing.  That’s why I played so much.  I may not have my year again and next year someone will win two bracelets and it won’t be me. 

 

ML:  Did you join the advisory council?

TS:  I was telling Jeffrey Pollack I wanted to write an article or post on Pokerati titled “Stop the Bitching.”  Because some poker players bitch so much and I’m tired of it.  I told him Harrah’s did a nice job, obviously there were some things they could have done better, but you can tell they are really trying to make things better.  That’s my opinion.  And I’m tired of people complaining that Harrah’s is making money.  They are a business, they should make money.  They don’t complain about the price of the steaks at the Bellagio when they pay $50 for a piece of meat or a meal.  And he (Pollack) said “You’re going to make a great player of the year.”  That’s when he asked me to be on the council and I said sure I’d love to. 

 

I don’t know how experienced I am because some of these people go to every tournament.  But there was an interesting problem is the Deuce to Seven Triple Draw event.  Two people show up at the same time, Berry Johnston buys-in late and based on the decision of the tournament he gets 8500 in chips.  The other guy who had bought in before the event started and had been blinded off sat down with 5k in chips.  I don’t know the exact numbers but it was something like this.  So, they started at the same time but had completely different stack sizes.  They stopped the tournament to discuss this because some people thought it was outrageous.  Daniel Negreanu and Howard Lederer were upset and going nuts.  And I said “Who’s on the player’s advisory council?”  And they both looked at each other like…Whoops!  But I’m sure they didn’t think about it.  You can’t foresee all of your problems.  I just thought it was funny when you have input on that… it seems a little hard to bitch about it.

 

ML:  Well, when you have someone like Howard Lederer, who has been playing the WSOP for many, many years and he makes an honest mistake… that is a good example of how Jeffrey Pollack or Harrah’s, who haven’t been doing this for very long, are going to make mistakes as well.  It’s trial and error.

 

TS:  Right, exactly, it’s a learning process.  It’s a lot like golf.  The golf rules have changed over the years because certain things have happened.  Someone say’s “Oh, we’ve never encountered that before so we need to have a rule for it.”  I’m not saying its something they’ve never encountered before but they may have never thought about it before because it hasn’t been an issue.  The rules have to change because certain things come up that haven’t come up before.

 

ML: Well, it’s like that with any sport and the law.  Laws change all the time.

TS:  Right, exactly. 

 

ML:  Speaking of change, what did you think of the new blind structures this year?

TS:  I heard people bitching they were too fast, too slow.  In general I liked them.  I thought if you paid $50,000 for the H.O.R.S.E. event…we started at 600/1200 and we only had 83 big bets.  I don’t think that’s enough for people paying $50,000 and for playing five days.  If you’re going to play for five days then there were too many people eliminated the first day.  I think if you pay $50,000 you should have at least 100 big bets and probably more.   That’s really the crown jewel (H.O.R.S.E. event) so give people a chance to play and let’s see what happens.  But it wasn’t horrible.

 

One thing I learned is you can’t please everyone.  One person says the structure is too fast another will say they’re too slow.  Some want to flip a coin and get it over with and other people want to have the time to play poker and play their best. 

 

ML:  It’s a new tell.  Everyone plays differently and that’s what it comes down to.  Do you have a favorite between the World Poker Tour and the WSOP?

 

TS:  If I had to pick one in the year, I would play the WSOP.  The WSOP does a great job of promoting its players.  There’s extra value in playing a WSOP final table when you can get a deal with someone or make money wearing hats.  They talked about Gavin Griffin’s hair color supporting breast cancer, they talked about my book and I see them (WSOP) doing that with a lot of the players from the final table.  Certainly the WPT does some things right but I think it’s going to hurt them moving to GSN because you have to order the channel. 

 

ML:  What are your poker plans this year?

TS:  Well, I plan my personal life first and play poker around that because I believe that’s the healthy thing to do and the best thing to do for your family.  I didn’t do that this year at the WSOP because I was trying to win Player of the Year.  I think it’s better for your poker play if all of your personal things are in order.  It’s easier to play good poker. 

 

ML:  I’m excited to read your book.  I think it’s an edge because anybody can learn the math.  Having a healthy attitude and lifestyle seems to be difficult for some. It’s definitely and edge for you.

 

TS:  I think so.  I think some players have gambling problems or issues like that and they can’t be cured.  Some people don’t have gambling problems but they still behave as though they do.  There are so many people that could do better than they do with the right perspective and the right discipline.  But they just don’t get it.  It’s been good for me and I’m really trying to live a balanced life and keep gambling in perspective.