Paul McGuire, Tao of Poker creator and known as just Pauly, travels the world covering poker tournaments and writing stories of the people that fill them.  It’s no surprise our interview marked the longest in Studs of Poker history as Pauly conversations flow as if you’ve known him your whole life.  Yet, a Pauly departure leaves you with more questions and a strong urge to peek back inside his brain Although he is a busy man, he still manages to make you feel as if you are an important part of his day and he’s grateful to have seen or spoken to you.  Part two wraps up with his views of the not-so-glamorous poker circuit, favorite poker pros and the writers he wishes would return to the mother ship.

Michele Lewis:  What do you love and hate most about your job?

Paul McGuire:  I love to be able to meet people such as yourself, Michele.                      

ML: Ha, ha.

PM: No, I’m serious. Meeting people I wouldn’t normally meet.  You’re this businesswoman/mom from Texas.  When am I going to normally interact with someone like you?  Poker brings people together in a way that a lot of other things don’t. As a writer, I’m fascinated with people and enjoy meeting new people. I’m constantly meeting new people from all walks of life because poker attracts both sexes, all races, all backgrounds.  Rarely are you going to catch that little microcosm of humanity but in poker you see it on a bigger stage.

When money and fame are involved it intensifies people’s personalities.  You get to see people at their worst and their best.  But I guess that’s the bad part because you see the worst part of people and the worst part of big business.  You see serious addictions everyday. I write and joke about it but when you walk by people sitting in their own urine at a slot machine, that’s behavior because of gambling and their inability to handle their addictions.  It’s as much of society as anything else but living in Las Vegas and being on the poker circuit the past three years, you get to see a dark side of humanity.      

Then there are people winning lots of money and just blowing it.  Some players do good things with their money, Phil Gordon raises money for cancer, Annie Duke did a lot for Darfur, all the Vietnamese players give money to family back home like John Phan, Kenny Tran and Liz Lieu and Barry Greenstein gives away his winnings.

Most of the other players take the money and buy watches, cars or just blow it foolishly.  Watching that (blowing money) with all of the social problems going on and it’s like…wow, life is just a turn of cards.  Some people have to suffer and others can win 200,000 dollars and not think twice about blowing it on craps.  Ah, I’m rambling here.                                                                                 

ML: No, you’re not, it’s an important point.

PM: That’s kind of what the book I’m writing is about but it’s a difficult subject.  Maybe I’m just a jaded writer. 

And poker’s not just gambling its big entertainment business and those are some of the sleaziest entities on this planet.  It’s so fascinating though; it unites people but destroys them.  It makes people’s dreams come true but at the same time it completely demoralizes them.  That’s the great and bad about poker in a nutshell.                                                               

ML:  So, was that the part about your job that you hate?

PM:  Yeah, immersing yourself into that darkness.  When you’re always in a casino you constantly see people losing money.   You see people do bad and desperate things. 

What I don’t like about what I do specifically is being on the road for so long.  It’s great having a rock and roll lifestyle but I don’t have any sense of stability and as a writer I need to have that kind of discipline.  I need to get up everyday and write X amount of hours to improve myself as a writer.  I need to read a lot, I need to write more and get inspired by different things and being on the road I feel like I’m always catching up. I have a girlfriend in another city, family in New York and my friends kind of have to take it on my terms because I can only be around so much.  The cool ones suck it up and stick around because they understand.  But it’s tough trying to reconnect after being on the road for so long.  I’m meeting so many new people but the people I think about most aren’t with me most of the time.  It’s a catch 22, it’s been a great life but I’ve sacrificed a lot of friendships.  The people I see daily are so sporadic.  Like, I would see you everyday at the World Series because you were there but when that was over – I didn’t see you, you know?  It’s like that. 

So, that’s what I don’t like…not being able to see my friends, my family, my brother but I’m lucky now that my girlfriend was hired so I get to spend more time with her.  It can be very lonely in hotel rooms because writing is very solitary unlike playing in a band.  But then you just go downstairs and play craps.                                                                        

ML:  Then the next day you have regrets.

PM: Yeah, but that’s Vegas. It’s nice not to have to work in Vegas everyday.  When you walk out of the casino in London, you’re in London. Or in Barcelona, it’s Barcelona! You walk out of the casino in Vegas and there are four casinos.                                                 

ML:  And another and another. 

PM:  Yeah and it’s so hot you just want to stay inside.                                                                                 

ML: Yeah, although, the dam tour is fun.  So, where do you see yourself in five years?

PM:  I hope I’m still alive in five years.  In five years, I’ll be 40 so hopefully I’ll be…[exhaling]… I don’t know.  I try not to think that far ahead.  I hope I have a book published or two and more mainstream writing. 

In five years I hope to be kind of the same as today where I’m able to call my own shots, pick my assignments, travel around the world covering new and various things for other people.  If it’s still poker that’s fine but I’d like to try new things.  At the same time, I’m a novelist at heart so a book or I might give screenwriting a second chance.  I think in my forties I’ll be more mature and a better writer than I am today or was at 25 trying to break into Hollywood.  Everything I’m doing now is prep work for when I’m a 40-year-writer.  I don’t want to be 40 chasing around poker tournaments, you know?  I want that stable environment where I am constantly writing for myself.   And no kids.

ML: No kids?

PM: No, I’m going to let my brother have kids so I can have nieces and nephews. 

ML: Well, a lot of people can’t say that and I think it’s better that you know rather than having them and then figuring out later, hey this isn’t for me.

PM: [Laughing] I’m just too selfish with my time.  And kids are expensive.

ML:  Well, you need your time if you’re a traveling writer. 

PM:  Yeah, plus what happened to me here two years ago is now happening oversees.  I’m getting a lot of recognition and getting more work opportunities with Pokernews Australia and some Swedish clients.  I wouldn’t have those opportunities if I weren’t always on the road.  But that’s the catch 22, Michele.  It beats being a bartender.

ML: Totally or Starbucks.

PM:   Yeah, totally.   I don’t want to have to bartend for a living but I’m prepared to do that if I have to in my latter years. 

ML: You could retire in Vegas and bartend at the hooker bar at the Rio.

PM: There you go.  I was thinking something warmer like Key West or an island somewhere.  We shall see.

ML: What are your favorite blogs to read and are there any that are gone that you wish would come back?

PM:  The one I miss the most is The Cards Speak.  My friend Henry started that and was working for Full Tilt.  He moved to Ireland and hasn’t been keeping it up.  He was one of my favorite writers and I was sad to see him stop.

Other poker blogs…well, you know, Pokerati is one of my favorites.  And I’m not just saying that because Dan is paying me money to say that.  I have a lot of incriminating pictures of Dan so if he ever tries to strong-arm me again…I will publish all of those on YouTube. 

ML: Go for it.

PM: No really, I do like Pokerati.  And now the Donkey Bomber is famous.  Dan is a good writer and I like the format that he does there. 

Probably the most under-rated poker blog is my brothers Poker in the Weeds.  He doesn’t write much but what he does write is hysterical.  He has a great sense of humor and he gets right to the point.  I just wish he would write more about his daily life because his job is like The Office meets Office Space. [Laughing] I think one of the things is that he just doesn’t care about having a blog or having to write it.  He is definitely one of the funnier bloggers out there. 

I don’t read a lot of poker blogs because with work I get so dizzy.  Grubby has always been one of my favorite writers.  His take on gambling and food is unique.  And I like Iggy’s blog because he summarizes everything that has been going on.  It’s always nice to get a big uber post to get my fix of all things poker that I’m not paying attention to.  I could pimp my girlfriends blog but then it would just seem like I’m pimping my girlfriend.  People read her anyway so it’s not a big deal. Otis and CJ don’t post as much but in their heyday they were some of the best around.  [Thinking] Poker blogs, poker blogs.

(Photo – Otis and Pauly take a break during the World Series for a lime toss bet.  Photo by Dan Michalski during a rare appearance). 

ML: You don’t have to pimp them all.

PM: [Ignoring me] Oh, I think the WickedChops guys are really funny.  I think he needs to smoke less crack and lay off the crystal meth. 

ML:  And you’re referring to which “he?”

PM: Snake. [Pauly releases a big belly laugh] Snake’s a fucking druggie, so…

ML: Must be a result of that philosophy minor.

PM: [Laughing louder] Yeah. Those guys are great and what I like about them is they don’t give a shit.  They don’t take it seriously and I think so many people in the industry do take it seriously.  I take my writing seriously but not my blog.  When it’s not for commercial or business reasons then you have to have fun with it.

That’s one of the best parts of the World Series is seeing them (WickedChopsPoker) there. 

ML:  I always describe the World Series as summer camp for adults.  You know, you’re there for six weeks in a play land. 

PM:  Totally. My girlfriend equates it to working on a movie set.  You’re away for a period of time and everyone you see everyday becomes your friends and family.  Summer camp for adults…good analogy.  Instead of free swim you get to go to the Rhino (a strip club).

 

ML: That’s funny.  Ok, last question…who are you’re favorite players to cover?

PM: Hmmm, that’s a good question.  Phil Hellmuth is always entertaining.  I’ve had a lot of opportunity to cover his final tables or crazy tables.  As a writer it’s great because I just have to write down his quotes verbatim.  It’s so funny to watch him and he’s so good at what he does. I’m constantly trying to figure out if he’s genuinely that crazy, a self promoting marketing genius or a combination of the two.  Without giving him too much credit, he is an artist at what he does because if it’s an act then it’s an amazing act.  If it’s not an act then… he really thinks he’s that good and it’s just amazing to just sit and watch him play because very rarely do you see him make too many mistakes. 

I like watching the Scandinavians and the young Internet players play for my game because this is how people are playing today.  Those that are playing like that are the ones making money.  I’ve had to cover certain pros and when they play conservative it’s just fold, fold, fold.  It’s like watching paint dry.  But someone like Gus Hansen and other guys that create action are fun to cover.

I’ve made friends with some extremely helpful players along the way that are just good guys. They understand you have a job to do and they will re-tell hands and give chip counts when you walk by the table.  Guys like Bill Edler, Umberto Brenes and Kirk Morrison they’re great and understand.  But there are a few pros that I don’t like to cover that aren’t very friendly and certainly around the tables. I won’t mention who they are but pretty much everyone else is ok.  It’s random, some pros just come over and start talking to me.  At the WSOP Europe, Jamie Gold, who’s a friend of a friend, came over to talk to me about hands and stuff so it makes the job a lot easier.

ML:  At the same time, don’t you worry about players that will be your friend just so you pimp them? 

PM: Yes and no.  I was afraid of people finding out who I was.  I remember reading about Hunter Thompson and for his first few years no one knew who he was.  He was a fly on the wall and was not mainstream press at all.  At my first World Series I felt I could get away with that but most know who I am now.  I want to say what I want to say but it’s tough when you know you have pros reading your site and they’re calling me out on stuff that I write.  I don’t really care about that but I don’t want to have the confrontation. 

I’ve maintained a distance so I can tell if someone is buttering me up or whatever. I’ve been around for the past three years and know when people are being genuine verses angle shooting.  I find that the family members or friends angle shoot more than the players. 

Having beers with pros you get a sense of who is full of shit or who is just an asshole.  It’s really cool when you meet genuine people like Bill Edler.  It’s so wonderful to see someone like that because most are just scumbags.

ML:  Jason Kirk raves about him.

PM:  Because he’s just such a great guy and I’m fortunate to cover guys like him.  It’s tough though, it’s like when I worked on Wall Street…you always had to question what people’s motives were on why they wanted to be your friend.  It’s one thing meeting new people but it’s another if they’re seeking me out.  And there are more angle shooters in poker.

ML: Yeah, poker is all about taking, it’s not about giving.  Do you ever have a hard time not playing the main events?

PM:  Sometimes you see so many people make such atrocious plays that you’re like these guys are so bad, I’m as good as these guys or I can get as lucky.  It’s disappointing because most of the time it’s the luckiest guy that wins, not the best player. 

I’m a cash game player so if anything I just don’t have enough time.  I’d like to find more time but I’m around it so much and when I get off work the last thing I want to do is go play.  I usually have to write anyway so I don’t have the time.   

I think I gamble more on the side when I’m not playing because I can’t play.  I need to get my fix so I bet on sports.  I have friends and that’s all they do when they get off during tournaments.  I just can’t be one of those guys, unfortunately.

 

ML:  Dan Michalski and I were talking about how you get to work around 11am and work till 2 or 3 in the morning.  I know you joke that you do it on the crack you smoke but really…when do you find the time to write your long posts?

PM: No, I don’t smoke crack.  I don’t sleep much so that’s an extra hour or two that I get that most people don’t.  Part of it is…it’s the World Series and I’m there to produce.  I have a tremendous work ethic and I have a lot of respect for the people that pay me money like Pokernews, various clients and people that purchase ads on Tao of Poker. 

Yeah, I’m tired, I don’t feel like doing it but when you factor all of that in I’m not a slacker when it comes to holding my end of the bargain. I talk shit to get X, Y and Z but if I don’t perform then I’m not going to get that money next year.  Part of the reason I’ve gone far is because people know if they hire me that I’m going to bust my ass to get it done and on time.  It’s a personal integrity issue and audience issue. 

The World Series is when you have your audience and my original clients were fans.  Someone asked Joe DiMaggio, or I’m not sure if it was DiMaggio, but they asked why do you keep playing harder and he said because there are kids here to see me play for the first time.  Someone might be reading me for the first time and I don’t want him or her to read shit. That’s the way I look at it.  Sometimes I put out something I think is great and people perceive it as shit and sometimes I put out a throw away post and it becomes a big hit.  You have to work hard, you have to write, and you have to produce.  But the rest of the year is not as intense. 

Sometimes I’m like this is it.  I’m not doing this again but then I show up.  I’d like to be back next year but more in a Pokerati sort of way.  I really want the Dan Michalski deal where you just show up every couple of…whatever, a couple of hours a day and disappear for a few days and then come back. 

 

ML:  He claimed he was there in the middle of the night.

PM:  Yeah, I heard that every so often.

ML:   Hmmm, so what you’re saying is…you try to be accountable and take pride in your work?

PM:   Yeah, I do.  It’s hard to explain.

ML:  I was being facetious because it doesn’t seem like anyone takes pride in their work anymore much less show gratitude for a job.

PM: Well, you see what goes on.  You know who is working hard there and who isn’t.  There are the people that want to further their careers and people that are just half-assing it.  I think I annoyed a lot of people because I was like this is the play offs.  You have to step it up, let’s go.  This is the main event, we can’t be fucking off here. Seems like most people there are just there to have fun.